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Post by boskelli1571 on Aug 22, 2018 6:56:54 GMT -5
I have read that LL is rarish. I've had 6 or more get paralysis and other mareks symptoms, well the last 3 were 8 months old, and I've had the rest over a year old, up till 2. So really the only way to tell is a necropsy to see where the tumors are and a pcr test. My first line of fire is always treat for cocci. And make sure they are eating and drinking. More you really can't do. Cocci can live well in a a sub symptomatic state, just slow to gain and not lay alot of eggs. Coccidiosis hasn't been in my differential b/c they is no sign of diarrhea, bloody poop or other telltale signs and since it is one bird that is ailing I'm inclined to go with LL. The last batch of chicks I got all suffered a similar fate (different breeder) - the symptoms are so similar that I'm pretty sure it's either Mareks or LL. I'm going with LL b/c of the time frame. |
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Post by maryellen on Aug 22, 2018 10:16:27 GMT -5
So the LL is genetic?
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Post by seminolewind on Aug 22, 2018 10:44:31 GMT -5
I think LL spreads horizontally and not vertically (mother to egg).
Cocci can have very little symptoms. My lab suggests treating for cocci twice a year for chickens at home. Sometimes adult bird cocci just causes some weight loss and lack of energy.
The best thing you can do is send a dearly departed bird for a necropsy and be sure to write on the form "suspected Marek's or LL". That ends the guessing game.
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Post by boskelli1571 on Aug 22, 2018 11:35:07 GMT -5
It seems it can be. A recent article in Science Direct (Avian Sarcoma Leukosis Virus) 2017, stated the following: "Some ALV can be present as 'integrated' proviruses in the genome of normal birds and are transmitted genetically as Mendelian genes - either complete or incomplete". The article is a bit deep but very interesting, also LL can be passed from the mother hen via the albumin to the chick. I had not realized that the virus was insidious enough to get itself programmed into a birds DNA, that doesn't bode well for infected lines... I don't know if they are having the same issues in Holland and the rest of Europe.
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Post by maryellen on Aug 22, 2018 12:10:43 GMT -5
I bet they arent overseas. It seems they have more lines over there vs here. .
Maybe try canada for hatching eggs since you are so close to the border. Chris comes to ny once a year in the spring usually , maybe he can sell you eggs from his flock as his bredas are mostly unrelated to birds here(except he might have a few from dutch connection farm who sold some of hers to walts ark years ago)
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Post by maryellen on Aug 22, 2018 12:11:27 GMT -5
So LL can pass in egg to chick , just like mg can then?
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Post by boskelli1571 on Aug 22, 2018 18:28:20 GMT -5
So LL can pass in egg to chick , just like mg can then? Yep - not sure whether or not it insinuates into the chicks DNA or simply infects it, either way it's kind of depressing. I haven't really spoken to Chris much, I got the impression he would not do anything 'illegal' like bring eggs with him - can't say I blame him, but going through the paperwork will likely be a nightmare but I'm going to look into it.
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Post by maryellen on Aug 22, 2018 20:36:48 GMT -5
I gave him eggs to bring back , so he might bring some over. Ask him if he can bring eggs next trip.
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Post by seminolewind on Aug 22, 2018 21:35:32 GMT -5
From what I know about LL, it can only be differentiated from Marek's from a necropsy. I think LL tumors start in different areas . Also, LL is not known to cause leg paralysis.
Sue, sounds like a good article. Great to find articles that are more current than most.
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Post by boskelli1571 on Aug 23, 2018 7:00:01 GMT -5
From what I know about LL, it can only be differentiated from Marek's from a necropsy. I think LL tumors start in different areas . Also, LL is not known to cause leg paralysis. Sue, sounds like a good article. Great to find articles that are more current than most. I hope you can find it - I would have linked it but my computer is not co-operating with silly little things like that. I have to get it check out. Yes you're right, the tumors are different and paralysis is not usually present in LL. This morning my little hen is able to stand by herself for short periods, only time will tell if that lasts. I think she had also got malnourished and dehydrated (bad Mama  ), so my hand feeding of super-gruel may be helping. She is very determined to be independent. The 2nd splash started with sneezing and wheezing last night, so he is going on Baytril this morning.
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Post by maryellen on Aug 23, 2018 12:53:50 GMT -5
Oh noo not sneezing?? Definitely give baytril!
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Post by maryellen on Aug 23, 2018 17:42:43 GMT -5
Omg if anything happens get the splash tested
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Post by boskelli1571 on Aug 23, 2018 19:03:23 GMT -5
Omg if anything happens get the splash tested If any of them dies they will be tested for sure. If they recover, I plan to go NPIP next year so I will get them tested then also. |
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Post by seminolewind on Aug 23, 2018 21:34:33 GMT -5
I did have one little silkie hen that was hatched, and at 3 weeks could not walk. Turns out I think she had cocci maybe, but wasn't eating and got weak. I was lucky enough to have a feeding tube and she got better and she's a tough little hen now.
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Post by maryellen on Aug 24, 2018 12:47:29 GMT -5
If the splash tests positive for any contagious diseases you will never be able to be npip just a fyi. My npip was revoked with my test results and the state told me i can never be npip again unless i move and start over with brand new birds. I think ny is the same, but not sure so find out before you have the splash tested if she doesnt make it
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Post by boskelli1571 on Aug 24, 2018 14:50:03 GMT -5
If the splash tests positive for any contagious diseases you will never be able to be npip just a fyi. My npip was revoked with my test results and the state told me i can never be npip again unless i move and start over with brand new birds. I think ny is the same, but not sure so find out before you have the splash tested if she doesnt make it To be honest, I'm really not fussed about the NPIP thing. It looks great on paper, but then you buy chicks and they die from disease X - oops! NPIP doesn't test for that..oh well.
I think it's probably more about human health and Gov't oversight than poultry health in general..IMHO. There must definitely be 3 breeding lines at Waltzs'. All the blacks look great, doing well. The blues are doing ok but have some subtle deformities of the feet and the splash....well, we shall see. All are very friendly birds, delightful.
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Post by seminolewind on Aug 24, 2018 19:19:39 GMT -5
If the splash tests positive for any contagious diseases you will never be able to be npip just a fyi. My npip was revoked with my test results and the state told me i can never be npip again unless i move and start over with brand new birds. I think ny is the same, but not sure so find out before you have the splash tested if she doesnt make it To be honest, I'm really not fussed about the NPIP thing. It looks great on paper, but then you buy chicks and they die from disease X - oops! NPIP doesn't test for that..oh well.
I think it's probably more about human health and Gov't oversight than poultry health in general..IMHO. There must definitely be 3 breeding lines at Waltzs'. All the blacks look great, doing well. The blues are doing ok but have some subtle deformities of the feet and the splash....well, we shall see. All are very friendly birds, delightful.
Very true! NPIP doesn't cover that much. |
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Post by maryellen on Aug 24, 2018 19:34:42 GMT -5
Npip here covers pollurum and avian flue. Free testing. If you want mareks, mg etc it costs the person money.
Walts has the blacks and mottled if she has mottled from dutch connection in south jersey, i think waltz got another bunch from greenfire when they had them, and i think the splash are from a completely different person. I gotta find my email from waltz as she said where she got the other 2 lines from
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Post by boskelli1571 on Aug 25, 2018 18:23:43 GMT -5
The little splash female died today, not unexpected of course but sad anyway she was so friendly. I am sending her for necropsy on Monday so should have some answers in a couple of weeks.
The sneezer is slightly better, has more energy, but I'm still expecting the worst to happen - to look on the bright side, if the necropsy comes back positive for Mareks or LL I won't have to bother with NPIP.
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Post by maryellen on Aug 25, 2018 20:20:29 GMT -5
Oh sue im sooo sorry...
I hope the necropsy shows something.
I have cockeral that is off, ive been watching him all day. Got him on the porch in a cage. He sleeps too much. He is 4 months old, very neurotic since he hatched
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), so my hand feeding of super-gruel may be helping. She is very determined to be independent.