Mareks question

[boskelli1571]

I have read lots about Mareks disease, but I have a question that remains unanswered - so for all you knowledgeable folks here goes:

if your birds exhibit signs of Mareks disease, do they always die or is it possible to halt the progression of the disease in it's earlier stages?

The reason I ask is this - I thought I had LL in the new Bredas, but symptoms of slight leg paralysis have arisen, so I suspect Mareks, but the 3 pullets that had the worst symptoms appear to be walking better, they eat well, weight is still a problem but we're working on it.

I'm aware they would remain carriers, but can they survive the initial onslaught of the disease - thoughts/experience please.

[maryellen]

Hopefully karen will chime in as she has more knowledge on it.
Im just learning.
All i see in my flock is i have birds that are 8,9,10 yrs old who tested positive and are alive and doing well, a few young bredas who tested positive are still alive and doing well so far .

If your bredas test positive for mareks id be seriously pissed at waltzs ark...
You can have a blood test and mouth swab done to test for it too.

I remember sylvester saying something about waltzs ark birds having diseases as she got some from them and i think they all died, she mentioned it last year in one of my old threads on the chicken forum that we all used to be on

[maryellen]

Did you get the necropsy report yet on the little splash that passed?

[boskelli1571]

Sept 9, 2018 7:04:26 GMT -5 maryellen said:

Did you get the necropsy report yet on the little splash that passed?

No still awaiting results.

Well, I have to be fair to Waltzs'.....my intention was to keep them separate from my 'old' flock, but d/t circumstances I wasn't able to. So the question becomes were they infected before they got here or did they catch it from my flock?

I have never had any birds with Marek like symptoms in any of my flock except Bredas. It may be that my flock has a very mild form of Mareks which doesn't bother them but is devastation to Bredas - I will never know.

Another splash died yesterday and I have 3 that are hanging in there and 3 healthy.

[maryellen]

Have you added birds previously? Normally if you add birds and the new birds get sick once added to your flock then your flock is infected. If you add new birds to your flock and your flock gets infected then the new birds are infected.
I woukd still ask sylvester. She had posted on my breda thread on the other forum, and she posted on the breda thread on byc too with the birds she got. Not saying ut is waltzs ark, but ask her anyway.

[boskelli1571]

Sept 10, 2018 6:06:28 GMT -5 maryellen said:

Have you added birds previously? Normally if you add birds and the new birds get sick once added to your flock then your flock is infected. If you add new birds to your flock and your flock gets infected then the new birds are infected.
I woukd still ask sylvester. She had posted on my breda thread on the other forum, and she posted on the breda thread on byc too with the birds she got. Not saying ut is waltzs ark, but ask her anyway.

I have been chatting back and forth with Sylvester & Verna. I know it's bad practice but I have added birds to the flock over the years after quarantine time. I have never had any so susceptible to disease as the Breda - live and learn.

    

[chickenlady]

I was wondering sort of the same thing. Does Mareks symptoms come and go? Right when I think I’m losing the whole flock they seem to perk up. They are also all molting and the weather has finally cooled off. I’m pretty sure one of my girls has it and it’s going to get her she’s showing more progressed symptoms. But some of the others are up and down and not showing as many symptoms. With everyone going through a pretty rough molt it’s hard to tell.

[maryellen]

After quarantine period is fine. There might be something in your flock that just didnt show up till the bredas arrived , or the bredas are carriers.

The bredas have such a small genetic background they could be weaker who knows.
I know with mine my flock had no issues till i brought in birds from the breda breeder.

I hope you can find out what's going on with all yours.

[maryellen]

Also, every chicken forum im on at Facebook is people posting mg , respiratory issues and birds dying... so its not an isolated issue it seems.
I got 2 people on a forum.telling me i can clear MG by doing denagard every other day for 30 days and my flock will trst negative after that......

[boskelli1571]

Sept 10, 2018 12:56:44 GMT -5 maryellen said:

Also, every chicken forum im on at Facebook is people posting mg , respiratory issues and birds dying... so its not an isolated issue it seems.
I got 2 people on a forum.telling me i can clear MG by doing denagard every other day for 30 days and my flock will trst negative after that......

Ok - the results are in - lymphoid leukosis. I would rather have had Mareks b/c now I cannot use the healthy pullets for breeding since it can pass from mother to chick via the egg.

My question on Mareks still stands tho' - I'm curious.

I will be telling Waltzs' since the vet tells me that it would not be possible for the old flock to have infected the new and still be healthy..it's gonna piss her off but she needs to know she has LL somewhere in the flocks she has.

[seminolewind]

Marek's follows no rules. Whatever I've read-most has not been written in stone. Lameness is usually not a part of LL (but who knows?)

I've had 2 that showed paralysis then walked normal a week later. One went on to suffer it again, and have loss of perception, and loss of neck control. I had a vaccinated hen (Hannah) one who displayed paralysis, and, I don't know, I couldn't do the deed so she lived in my bedroom for 6 weeks. She always ate really well. She did eventually walk again and I still have her. She had been vaccinated.

A chicken usually appears happy and healthy even tho having paralysis.

Yes symptoms can come and go but I've never seen symptoms never come back, (except Hannah).
I have lost more to immune suppression 2ndary to Marek's. Like Dying from bacteria or cocci that they should have been immune to.

If a chicken has lameness or paralysis, always rule everything else out; broken leg, vitamin deficiency, viral or inherited lameness by arthritis or osteoarthritis.

Symptoms may come and go, but eventually stay, and most likely get another symptom as well.

[seminolewind]

Chickenlady, if you have a Marek's exposed bird on your property chances are good that all chickens are exposed. Some will die and the rest will be carriers whether vaccinated or not.

It sounds like a pretty big problem when you get vertically passed diseases. The big companies or hatcheries have all but eliminated it from the flocks they buy the eggs from. Small breeders are not so lucky. And if all their birds are vaccinated day one for Marek's, it's easy to not even know your chickens carry Marek's. And true, smaller gene pools don't make things any better. It's a shame. As the big hatcheries have eliminated most if not all vertically spread diseases, it's a backyard problem now. And a 30 day quarantine with new birds does not save you from some bad diseases.

I don't know. I guess I'm down to not adding chickens, at some point hatching and vaccinating or buying chicks from a hatchery already vaccinated. Hatching is probably a no-go because what do I do with the roos?

[boskelli1571]

Thanks for the input. Although the age of the chicks was wrong, I felt that the signs were more Marek than LL, but what do I know? Nothing apparently! I cannot use the pullets for breeding since vertical transmission is probable in LL. Not sure about the healthy 'roo - I asked the vet and she said cull to be on the safe side.
I guess I'm with you and ME - closed flock. That suits me but I'm disappointed about the Bredas. I still have some older birds not from Waltzs' so I will try them out.

[maryellen]

Sue definitely let waltzs know. Demand your money back on all.the birds you bought. You have the necropsy results now to prove it. Do not give in with them. Force their hand and demand a refund and tell her you have solid proof. I doubt she would want the AG involved as they will shut her down

[maryellen]

Try the older ones sue that arent from waltz. Ill be curious as to her response once you tell her .
So that makes my black and mottled bredas that have mg , your splash that have LL. .. do you have any others from waltz that might be related to my black, mottled or cuckoo?? (My cuckoo came from the same breda breeder so im assuming she has what my.others have since they were all on her ground prior to me getting them)
And henrietta i got from the breda breeder too and an ameracauna i still have.

[maryellen]

But if you dont breed the LL chicks can LL be passed to the rest of the flock?

[boskelli1571]

Sept 10, 2018 18:34:54 GMT -5 maryellen said:

Try the older ones sue that arent from waltz. Ill be curious as to her response once you tell her .
So that makes my black and mottled bredas that have mg , your splash that have LL. .. do you have any others from waltz that might be related to my black, mottled or cuckoo?? (My cuckoo came from the same breda breeder so im assuming she has what my.others have since they were all on her ground prior to me getting them)
And henrietta i got from the breda breeder too and an ameracauna i still have.

The 'clean' birds I have are the mottleds from RFR and blues from Verna. RFR gave me a black split so I will be breeding her too.

There are 4 ways in which LL is spread : mother to egg, chick to chick, biting flies/insects & breeding infected stock. So it really isn't highly contagious and since the roosters role in all this is basically unknown, I may use the 'roo much further down the line as a experiment to determine if the male is involved in transmission.

My neighbor stopped by yesterday and hopefully we can get the roof on the breeding pen this weekend, when the rain stops, then I can separate the good Bredas' from everyone else.

The only way to eradicate LL is not to breed infected stock and really the only way to determine that is to wait until all pullets have had their first molt. After the 1st molt the rate of passing LL on to offspring drops by 95%! If you can wait until after the 2ns molt the incidence is almost 0.

My older birds have all had at least 1 molt so I'm good there. I will have to see if Verna has any spare hens

[seminolewind]

Wow you have certainly researched the LL. All I (think) I know is that it's hard to differentiate from Marek's unless PCR testing is done. Make sure that was done. And it's not as prolific as marek's, but that doesn't mean much when you have it.

You're right about one thing, testing. I think the more you test the more you know and I would keep a note book. I don't think there's a worthy amount of info out there on LL. I think it would be great if someone had a "hands on" experience to help the chicken owners of the world, LOL.

Good G_d! 10 years ago my vet dx'd my first roo with Eastern Equine Encephalitis and he had every classic Marek's symptom there was. He opened the bird up and saw no tumors so ruled Marek's out. And yes, chickens are used as sentinels for EEE . The vet is more experienced now. Thank goodness.

[maryellen]

RFR got some of her mottled from dutch connection too, which is the breeder i got my cuckoo, black and mottled from (thsy tested positive for mg).

[maryellen]

Hopefully verna will make it right with the ones you got from her