|
|
Post by dawg53 on Aug 25, 2018 20:33:40 GMT -5
The folks at MPC are very helpful and friendly.
|
|
|
|
Post by chickenlady on Aug 26, 2018 7:37:47 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback. Since ideal is appx 3 hours from me I may go there so I can pick them up myself and won’t have to worry about the extra roosters. They also vaccinate bantams which mpc doesn’t. I don’t understand why places wouldn’t they are just as likely to pick up Mareks like full size chicken. Also, I read an article about a lady dealing with Mareks and she mentioned a sort of 10 day rule. After 10 days without symptoms her hen was in the clear from Mareks. Does anyone know what she’s talkig about?
|
|
|
|
Post by chickenlady on Aug 26, 2018 7:42:41 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by seminolewind on Aug 26, 2018 12:26:22 GMT -5
The web is full of all kinds of information including BS. People just don't know what they're talking about or they say stuff that gives others false hope. I'm glad you bring this stuff up because it's good to talk about good information sources and bad ones as well.
I would imagine that these big hatcheries have machines that vaccinate chicks and a bantam sized chick may be injured by it (?) Just an idea. Other hatcheries may do those by hand or have started vaccinating through the egg.
I've never heard of a 10 day rule. Marek's virus takes at least 4 weeks to make enough virus to cause symptoms. There's a 30 day rule but my guess is that it's for respiratory symptoms to appear. A 30 day rule will only help with a few things. There's so many ailments chickens can carry that aren't seen for months . Again, people can believe that 30 days will guarantee them safety.
I still say the best and most safe method is hatching your own, vaccinating if wanted, but keeping chicks quarantined either way for 3-6 weeks. Hopefully if someone is sick, they will show it.
I don't think there is much anyone can do if you get eggs that carry illnesses that are from the mom. I don't know what people do about that or egg sellers do about it. Hatcheries pretty much buy eggs from clean and screened hens. I don't think they want a bad reputation of selling chicks that carry ailments. The eggs themselves are hatched and processed and shipped with very little human contact and no adult chicken contact. I think that's the best you can do.
If you find some suggestion a person online makes, check up on it. By reading as many articles as you can find, especially professional ones, you can sort of separate the good from the BS.
People also have much more success if they get all their chicks at once and don't add any to that unless they are hatched by you or a hatchery. Many backyarders add all kinds of chickens when they want and each chicken they add is exposing their own chickens to bad stuff.
Disinfecting. Everyone here has their own way. From what I know Virkon is the best to me because it works on porous surfaces, hopefully wood. Commercial agricultural plants use it. A tub of powder lasts years.
Oxine is not really Oxine unless mixed with citric acid to create a chemical that disinfects. The fumes are good as well for getting into crevices.
I think Clorox or ammonia are very good for the common bad germs. Soap and water is pretty good too. With these it's actually the scrubbing action that removes the germs and viruses. Friction is #1 for removing bad stuff and chemicals are what either carry it away or kill the bad stuff.
Cocci live in the ground and in chickens and from what an animal disease vet tells me you should treat all the chickens twice a year for cocci because it does build up. And cocci is not just something that chicks get. Any chicken with a poorer immune system can get cocci.
I know members here have more good info to add. Herbs and oils may be good but science has improved on these and created medicines that may work better. Herbs and oils are probably a good preventative. Vodka contains alcohol, maybe 30-40%. Rubbing alcohol is a lot higher % than that. Why not use a better concentration of alcohol? It's cheaper.
Dawg is good with worm management and does more reading about it then most. Others here have much more information about respiratory diseases , and some have info about diseases passed thru the egg from the hen.
|
|
|
|
Post by seminolewind on Aug 26, 2018 12:44:18 GMT -5
Most of her article is really really good! I'll address her blog later and send her a link because she seems like a person who is open to information from others and screens the info she gets. I wish there were more people like her . |
|
|
|
Post by maryellen on Aug 26, 2018 15:27:33 GMT -5
If hatcheries get eggs from breeders there could be a breach for MG or other diseases that pass from hen to egg if a hen is sick.
Some birds never show sickness, so sometimes you dont know right away
Some peope use the canary method. When they get new birds they quarantine them and add a few of their own birds to the new birds . If their birds get sick while with the new birds then they know the new birds have diseases.
.
|
|
|
|
Post by chickenlady on Aug 26, 2018 17:34:08 GMT -5
Again thank you for such great info. I’m pretty sure everyone is sick here except my roo and he is up and down but it’s hot and he knows his girls are sick so I can’t tell. I don’t know which direction I am going to go after this but I will try to stick to the basics of what I’ve learned here and also help spread the word and help educate others as you all have helped me. Karen I see you have been trying to educate people on this for quite a while. I found the BYC thread where someone is trying to breed for resistance it’s about 86 pages long from 2014 and you’re saying the same thing even then. That was about the time I was starting my chicken journey . Wished I would have payed a little more attention to those basic rules. Not mixing from different places and ages if you can help it, disinfecting more stringently and paying close attention to where you get your birds. I always did do the baby chicks so that they could be better inoculated on my property but I think I’m dealing with the very very virulent strain.
|
|
|
|
Post by dawg53 on Aug 26, 2018 17:53:47 GMT -5
I'm against the canary method. But you're right ME, some people do it. I'm sure hatcheries are inspected and birds tested. I've seen hatchery websites state they are pullorum/typhoid and avian influenza tested. I know Mt Healthy hatchery had a breakout of a disease in the past but I dont remember what disease it was.
Many respiratory diseases are spread via a person handling sick birds at a swap meet or show, flea market or getting birds off Craigslist or farmer down the road, and dishonest breeders. Diseases can be spread via hands, clothing, shoes, vehicles etc...
This day and time, we have to be on guard more than ever when acquiring birds.
I used to go to chicken swap meets and agricultural fairs, not anymore.
|
|
|
|
Post by seminolewind on Aug 26, 2018 19:15:22 GMT -5
Yea, hatcheries don't want the reputation. It would crush their business if they had some disease get spread.
Thanks, Chickenlady! I would just like people to learn from my big fat mistake. However
OH!!!!! The joys of new chickens! Growing up chicks! Spending hours looking at breeds! Dreaming about the coop you'll get! The snuggly feathery animals that are so easy to please! Then there's chicken math. If 5 are so joyous, 10 should be even better!!!
It's hard to think about diseases and death and watching chicks die. No one wants to think about that. Me? I kept a closed flock until one day I fell in love with a white silkie pullet from a breeder at a swap. 6 weeks later, my 18 month old roo could not climb into the coop. I stupidly thought he was waiting for me to put him to bed! He developed all the classic symptoms. When he was put down the vet mis diagnosed him with Eastern Equine Encephalitis because the vet couldn't find tumors. For the next year I had some chickens waste away and die and didn't know why. Then I hatched 10 chicks and they all suffered paralysis etc. Then I knew what I had.
|
|
|
|
Post by maryellen on Aug 26, 2018 19:42:09 GMT -5
Yeah me too, i started out with 6 chicks from tractor supply, then found out chickens lay colored eggs.. . I should have stopped after i got my legbars, but i bought from a few local people. My biggest mistake was bringing home the bredas that were sneezing on the ride home. Thats what infected my flock in october. I learned the hard way.
|
|
|
|
Post by dawg53 on Aug 27, 2018 3:12:05 GMT -5
Yea, hatcheries don't want the reputation. It would crush their business if they had some disease get spread. Thanks, Chickenlady! I would just like people to learn from my big fat mistake. However OH!!!!! The joys of new chickens! Growing up chicks! Spending hours looking at breeds! Dreaming about the coop you'll get! The snuggly feathery animals that are so easy to please! Then there's chicken math. If 5 are so joyous, 10 should be even better!!! It's hard to think about diseases and death and watching chicks die. No one wants to think about that. Me? I kept a closed flock until one day I fell in love with a white silkie pullet from a breeder at a swap. 6 weeks later, my 18 month old roo could not climb into the coop. I stupidly thought he was waiting for me to put him to bed! He developed all the classic symptoms. When he was put down the vet mis diagnosed him with Eastern Equine Encephalitis because the vet couldn't find tumors. For the next year I had some chickens waste away and die and didn't know why. Then I hatched 10 chicks and they all suffered paralysis etc. Then I knew what I had. Karen, it's sad what you and Maryellen have gone through, Chickenlady as well, heartbreaking. I dont think I'd have the fortitude or patience to deal with Marek's. I'd probably call it quits, no more chickening for me. Can ducks get Marek's? |
|
|
|
Post by seminolewind on Aug 27, 2018 4:08:20 GMT -5
No. Turkeys can carry it but it does nothing to them or others.
No on the ducks.
|
|
|
|
Post by chickenlady on Aug 27, 2018 7:53:22 GMT -5
Dawg you’re right I’ve been battling with that over the last 4 1/2 years whether to throw in the towel. Over the years people have said “It shouldn’t be that hard.” Well, it shouldn’t and it’s been extremely hard to keep going with always having a sick chickens. The last two years we’ve actually had a pretty good run for the most part except for respiratory that comes and goes. I’m also starting to wonder if it was one of my neighbors that moved in that has turkeys and guineas and chickens in a smaller backyard. We have a neighbor in between us that would throw bird seed on the ground to feed the birds and also thought it was cute that all the neighboring chickens would come over and eat the bird seed. I would always go over there and get my chickens and the neighbor would say they didn’t mind and they can have some of the birdseed. I told them no they can’t this is going to make them sick and sure enough now I’ve got a different form of Mareks and avian tuberculosis . I put up a fence in April and now they can’t go over there but the damage is done if it came from there. That would have exposed them around January if that was the source.
Also I have brought sick chickens inside my house to care for them and also in my car to take them to vets etc. I have feathers I have brought inside my house for decor, etc. Does this mean Mareks is all in my house also? If that is the case I have no safe place to brood any new chicks.
|
|
|
|
Post by seminolewind on Aug 27, 2018 19:56:36 GMT -5
Yea, Marek's dust is everywhere. I started in a spare room, then the bathroom, then my closet, then the garage since it's not for chickens, now back to the spare room.
I would keep them super quarantined for 3 weeks, use a separate shirt, wash hands and don't lean over the brooder. Then relax a bit. I move mine to an outdoor hutch on my patio at 4-6 weeks . I drench the hutch with Virkon first. They can build some more immunity that way.
It's really really hard to have a sick chicken all the time. I now pen sick ones back near the flock. Either they get better or they don't. Eventually I got to the point where months go by without any incidents. I hope there's some way you can curtail any more sick chickens and also the sick ones will die.
If I wanted more chicks, I would have them vaccinated for everything I can. I don't know what or if you have anything that can't be vaccinated for. Then keep this group separate with a separate coop.
I'd be upset with a neighbor like that!
|
|
|
|
Post by boskelli1571 on Aug 28, 2018 6:10:04 GMT -5
Mareks cant be cured unfortunately. A strong immune system can hold it off along with secondary health issues. I have a bunch of older birds, 2 are 10 and a few others are around 8. I just had a bunch of young ones die, but they started out with bubbles in their eyes and gasping and died within days of showing those symptoms. I add vitamins to their waters as well and feed the highest protein food as possible. Im going to disinfect the coops etc with virkon next weekend . Karen knows alot more about the disease. Im learning from her. Its upsetting. My choice was kill all my birds and disinfect and start over, or let them live their life and not bring any more in. I chose the latter. I did hatch a bunch of chicks that are now 2 months old and 4 months old, and so far they are ok but i know that can change. I did notice however on Facebook there are alot of chicken groups and everyone is complaining about sick birds with respiratory problems and some showing marek symptoms (leg issues then birds dying) It sounds like all backyard flocks are experiencing these issues A couple of scholarly articles I have read stated that most likely 80+% of backyard flocks have Mareks, it's that insidious. Some birds have a natural immunity no-one knows why/how. One of the problems with Mareks is there are different strains, so although your birds may be vaccinated against say, strain A,B & C, your bird could get D and die from Mareks. I just sent a bird off for necropsy it's either Mareks or Lymphoid Leukosis, waiting on results. Prevention is the key, good housekeeping and keeping existing birds healthy.
|
|
|
|
Post by chickenlady on Aug 28, 2018 8:26:54 GMT -5
Come to think of it it’s been almost a year since I brought any sick ones inside. I’ve since tried to nurse them outside and keep them in a tractor close to the flock so they don’t stress out.
I read that the virus stays active for 65 weeks and that’s how long you would have to go between batches to ensure the virus is gone. I wonder if that why I’ve had better luck with mine living with it so long being unvaccinated at least the ones I got as baby chicks. Even though they were unvaccinated it seems they had the best immunity out here compared to any older birds that were brought in. Mine do not seem to become symptomatic until they get to be 2-4 years of age.
It sure would be nice to have some peace of mind that the virus is gone if I wait it out. I will still go the vaccinated route but I won’t worry as much about putting them in such an infectious environment .
|
|
|
|
Post by dawg53 on Aug 28, 2018 9:53:21 GMT -5
A couple of scholarly articles I have read stated that most likely 80+% of backyard flocks have Mareks, it's that insidious. Some birds have a natural immunity no-one knows why/how. One of the problems with Mareks is there are different strains, so although your birds may be vaccinated against say, strain A,B & C, your bird could get D and die from Mareks. I just sent a bird off for necropsy it's either Mareks or Lymphoid Leukosis, waiting on results. Prevention is the key, good housekeeping and keeping existing birds healthy.
Please let us know the results when you get them.  |
|
|
|
Post by chickenlady on Aug 28, 2018 12:29:19 GMT -5
Mareks cant be cured unfortunately. A strong immune system can hold it off along with secondary health issues. I have a bunch of older birds, 2 are 10 and a few others are around 8. I just had a bunch of young ones die, but they started out with bubbles in their eyes and gasping and died within days of showing those symptoms. I add vitamins to their waters as well and feed the highest protein food as possible. Im going to disinfect the coops etc with virkon next weekend . Karen knows alot more about the disease. Im learning from her. Its upsetting. My choice was kill all my birds and disinfect and start over, or let them live their life and not bring any more in. I chose the latter. I did hatch a bunch of chicks that are now 2 months old and 4 months old, and so far they are ok but i know that can change. I did notice however on Facebook there are alot of chicken groups and everyone is complaining about sick birds with respiratory problems and some showing marek symptoms (leg issues then birds dying) It sounds like all backyard flocks are experiencing these issues A couple of scholarly articles I have read stated that most likely 80+% of backyard flocks have Mareks, it's that insidious. Some birds have a natural immunity no-one knows why/how. One of the problems with Mareks is there are different strains, so although your birds may be vaccinated against say, strain A,B & C, your bird could get D and die from Mareks. I just sent a bird off for necropsy it's either Mareks or Lymphoid Leukosis, waiting on results. Prevention is the key, good housekeeping and keeping existing birds healthy.
|
|
|
|
Post by seminolewind on Aug 28, 2018 12:31:32 GMT -5
Marek's strains are virulent, very virulent, very very virulent, very very very virulent, etc. They are not different strains just more resistant strains. I've read about neural vs example, ocular, but not that their different strains, just Marek's attacking the most vulnerable areas first.
I don't think many chickens have natural immunity to anything, just general antibodies that will fight anything. They may have ultra super immune systems (antibodies) in general. That may be the genetic part since I do have a breed that has poor genes. 4/5 have died and the last one is on her way out.
Then it appears that the older an adult is the more they are resistant to many things, (Marek's) ,childhood diseases . But there's general antibodies that build over time that will attack anything strange. Or as a chick, they are exposed to a minute amount of virus and this gives their immune system the advantage of building antibodies faster than any disease .
As far as NPIP goes, they have eradicated many diseases that are passed from hen thru egg. They certainly have to work on mg!
I personally do not agree that 80% of backyard flocks have Marek's. I think 80% of flocks will have an exposure in their lifetime . This is purely IMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by chickenlady on Aug 28, 2018 12:33:56 GMT -5
Boskelli I am concerned about that as well. What if I have the worst kind? Looking at the different syndromes of the disease I have the classic because we’ve had paralysis symptoms and tumerous as well as scabby flaky external tumors. Had two tumors removed from a hen trying to save her and it came back right away. She was so unique she was a partridge Orpington and Ameraucana mix. I hope you find out your results soon.
|
|
